Jessica Dornieden

Balancing Our Many Projects with Jessica Dornieden – Episode 30

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[00:05] Jenna: Hello, happy people, and welcome to Office ADHD. Welcome back to office. ADHD. I am super excited to introduce you to Jessica Dornieden. She is part of our Adult ADHD tribe and she has gone from daycare manager to bravely moving into the world of entrepreneurship. She learned to manage the large number of projects that we all love, and she is super successful. Jessica, thank you so much for being here today.

[00:40] Jessica: Well, thank you for inviting me. I love to share some tips and sanity Savers today, so yeah, excited for that.

[00:48] Jenna: Oh, we're excited. Oh, we all need them. And can you tell us just a little bit about some of your businesses, what you're involved in now, what you're doing?

[00:58] Jessica: Yeah, sure. So you've already hinted at it. I was working in early childhood, which anyone that's ever done it knows that we are chronically underpaid and overworked, basically. And yeah, there was one day where it all kind of came to a head where it was like a false allegation that someone made against a foreign member of staff. And it turned into this big thing that had to be dealt with. And it took like weeks to resolve the whole thing. And as I was going through all of that, like, suspending the person, getting the regulatory body involved and speaking with the parents and getting hospital reports and whatnot, it was so stressful that I was asking myself, what on earth am I actually doing here? I don't get paid enough to be dealing with that and to putting all these hours in and to have people treat you the way that they treat you kind of every single day. So I was scrolling online. I was like, on Facebook at night, and then I accidentally ended up clicking on a Facebook ad. It was super weird. I hadn't even seen it. It was just like when it just opens in front of you. So I was like and then I looked at it and it was like an online business community. And then I was like, what is this? And then I started getting nosy. And it was only like $30 a month or something. And I was like, So there's people, like, working online. So I joined that and I had no idea what I was doing or that I would ever be actually making anything out of that. So I joined this group and then I randomly started helping people with all of their tech issues. And eventually the coach of the group was like, by the way, did you know that you could get paid to help people with this? And I was like, what? This is so easy. Why would anyone pay you money to have you help them put something extra on their website or something like that? And that's how I ended up kind of getting into this whole tech VA space. And then six months later, I quit my full time job. I built that into a virtual assistant agency and then I got more into marketing and I wanted to go way deeper with my work instead of going broader and helping just more people and managing a bigger team. So eventually I just kept learning more about funnels and copy and ads and all that good stuff. And then I was working as the CMO of a pretty large coaching company. And over that time I met my new partner and he was like a video and podcast editor and that's how we got together. And we now run a company called Pristine Podcasts and we produce, manage and market shows. So yeah, that's been seven years of evolving and changing and learning and seeing what you like and seeing what you don't like and learning how to work with clients and all that stuff that you basically just have to pick up as a skill at some point. So yeah, it was very interesting.

[03:49] Jenna: I just love that because just as you walk through your journey, just like, as someone else with ADHD, I'm like, oh, yes. That is, like, the perfect journey of yeah, this is well, okay, now I'm interested in this. And I'm interested in this and how you just were able to take what you had and kind of just keep branching it this way and then branch it that way. You didn't have to always start over fresh, but you could just keep growing it in different directions to keep learning.

[04:18] Jessica: And I think that's kind of what life is about, right? We can't always expect that you will always be the same or that you'll always have the same interests, or that you always want to be doing the same thing forever. It's just not a realistic expectation for anyone to have. Sometimes you're required to change. Sometimes change comes because things happen to you that require a change, of course. But I just always thought, hey, follow what you like, and then just tried dropping as many of the stuff that you don't like along the way. So that that made it kind of natural in that sense.

[04:51] Jenna: That's awesome. And I feel like you kind of hit on some of the things where you talked about you kind of have to scale and figure out what you need, what you don't need, what are kind of some of your tips out there? How do you figure out what to hold on to, what to let go of?

[05:05] Jessica: That's a really good question. I think for the most part I've always kind of kept a list of activities that give me a lot of energy and the sort of activities that made me feel like absolutely drained. And a large amount of the tech work that I was doing, to be honest, it does get quite repetitive because if you're building course platforms or membership platforms and now you're having to migrate like 2000 members and there's a lot of repetitive work involved and then I was like, oh, this repetitive stuff. I'm going crazy with it. I don't like it. It's not challenging my brain at all. It's not keeping me engaged. It doesn't make me want to get up in the mornings anymore. So I sort of just went down the okay, hey, this thing I really like. This is fun. This is challenging. I can develop myself. And this thing here, oh, my God, if I have to do this one more time, I'm not going to be very happy about it. So I sort of just followed the good bat and then kind of built my compass and my path sort of that way.

[06:06] Jenna: Oh, that's great. So let's dig in more with some of more of your productivity strategies. Like, what are some of your ideas for us out there that are like, oh, I need to do this thing, and how do I get my pieces together?

[06:21] Jessica: Yeah, I wish I had all the answers to this one. I think I sort of noticed that as I was working, there were still challenges that I was running into, and I'm like, I have all day to get this done. And I didn't know at this point what was going on with my brain. I have no clue. All I'm noticing is that I want to do this thing. I can't bring myself to do the thing. All I have to do is this one thing. This thing takes ten minutes. I can't seem to bring myself to do the thing. What is wrong with me? So I started reading all of these books, and then they were like, here's this technique to get this done, and here's this technique to get this done. And then I tried it, and it wasn't working for me. I tried the Pomodora technique, and then I just got angry because I kept being interrupted by a ringing bell after 25 or 40 minutes when I was really into something. And then I would go and take the five minute break, and then I would get distracted and wash the dishes, and then I find myself hoovering, and suddenly that whole swing of productivity that I had is completely vanished. So I was like, Why is this not working? This is supposed to be working for everybody. Like, everyone recommends this. This is, like, the best thing, and I can't seem to get it to do anything for me. And then I was hearing about eat the frog. Like, you have to do the most complicated thing or the biggest thing in your day first thing in the morning. Yeah, great. I tried that. The end result is that I procrastinate the Shittle out of life for the whole day, and I basically get absolutely nothing done. So I'm like, okay, this isn't working for me either. And I felt frustrated, and I felt more and more stupid with every single thing that I tried. I'm like, this can't be it. And then eventually I sort of started realizing what's happening and that all of these tips and all of this advice that I'm consuming isn't working for me. And then I got some tips and advice from people who turned out to have ADHD, and suddenly that stuff started working for me, and I was like, oh, I see now what's happening. And then I started looking back over my whole life, and I'm like, oh, yeah, I had these problems all the time. This isn't something that's recent. This isn't because of running my own business or because I'm stressed or this is just how I work. And then I started letting go of those rules that we sort of all come with, like how you have to do life. Some of those are your rules. Some of those are other people's rules. But this is how you do life, and any other way is not how you do it. And once I learned to let go of that, then I could set things up so that they work for me so that it works in my way. So instead of using, like, a diary that comes in a fixed way, that works for me for two months and then stops working for me because I have different types of commitments, I was like, okay, I need something more flexible. So I personally, I love using Notion, so I was able to custom build my own thing where I can see everything that I need to know for that day in one place. Not a little bit on a calendar that I forget to open, and then I forget appointments. Not a little bit on my phone where I can't find the 50th note that I wrote, not a little bit here on a paper that I threw in the trash last week. So I just sort of started making sense of the patterns that I'm noticing. So for me, the game changer is not having to remember anything, because it turns out I'm not very good at remembering things, and that's perfectly okay. But I needed a place to put this all in, so I set that up for myself. And I made myself the rule that everything that someone tells me, every meeting I have that has action points, it gets written down, and then I don't have all this pressure on my brain to remember it. I don't have to remember to where I wrote that. It is just in one single place that I go into to figure out what am I supposed to be doing today?

[10:15] Jenna: I love that too, because then it's not cycling through your brain anymore. You don't have it being like, okay, right, I have to remember that.

[10:21] Jessica: All right.

[10:22] Jenna: I have to remember that because you know it's down.

[10:25] Jessica: Yeah. And I just don't remember it. I used to go on meetings, and I would get really excited by the content of the meeting, and then I would forget everything that we said we were going to do afterwards. But it was a really good meeting. I was on fire. I had all these ideas, completely forgot what I was supposed to be doing, and then I'm like, oh, shoot, now I have to figure out what did we actually agree we were going to get done by next week? Just because I just seemed to have deleted that information out of my brain. I was just in the moment and nothing remained from it. So it didn't help me. Taking notes on a scrappy piece of paper that literally I don't know if you ever take notes like that, but you look at them afterwards and they don't make any sense. Yes, it will just say, don't eat soup. The meeting was about a funnel, but it says don't eat soup.

[11:12] Jenna: Yeah, because you took a note on something random. Somebody said that you're like, oh, I want to remember that later.

[11:18] Jessica: Yeah. And then I'm like, Great, somebody doesn't eat soup. I'm not sure who it is or what that's got to do with the project, but the important things from the project don't seem to be on my notes. So I sort of got into a bit of a habit to be a little bit more focused there and end every meeting with everyone, summarizing the actions that we need to take and then writing them down as I go. So that sort of thing helped me an awful lot to not leave meetings and be completely just wiped with no idea what I'm supposed to be doing next. I'm so embarrassing when that happens.

[11:50] Jenna: I know, but it's something we all do because we love ideas and we love sharing ideas, but then when it comes to actually remembering and being like, wait, what did I say? What are we doing exactly?

[12:04] Jessica: Why am I here again? What do I get paid for?

[12:07] Jenna: Exactly? Like, oh, okay, we aren't going to the petting zoo.

[12:11] Jessica: What? Yeah, weird. But somebody doesn't eat soup anyways.

[12:15] Jenna: Exactly. I won't bring that to the potluck.

[12:20] Jessica: No soup for anybody. No cabbage. Thank you.

[12:23] Jenna: Yes, but I love that you realized you were leaving the meetings without that, so now that's just your habit is, okay, every meeting we're going to end with, let's write down the action steps.

[12:36] Jessica: Yeah. It's just watching what happens and then looking for the source of the chaos that just resulted in whatever I did somewhere or didn't do somewhere. And then I just sort of built little strategies to keep myself sane, but also to still get things done. I get paid to do a job, so I need to make sure that gets done and it gets done well and it gets done consistently. That's helped me a lot. And then as far as getting things done, because I know a huge thing for me for a while was like the motivation part, where I'm like, I just can't bring myself to get started and I never start the workday with the most important thing because I will never start that thing. So I always leave some tasks the following day that I know would get me to open the laptop in the mornings. So I, for example, like to make graphics, but I have to limit myself on how much of that I do. So whenever I put out a new podcast episode, I need some graphics to go with it that I need to make. I always leave it for first thing in the morning because then it excites me to open canva and to make some graphics. And then I'm already in front of the laptop and I've already started work, so I might as well carry on with what I need to do. So I'll have like three, four, or five quick win tasks that I do first thing, and they can't be messed up because they just need to get done. You can't make a mistake. Nothing wrong with them. And once I've done those and I'm in front of the laptop and I'm in a good mood and I've successfully ticked five things off my to do list, then I carry on with the bigger, more complicated thing, and I don't get stuck in this, oh, I can't do it. I have to do it, but I just can't bring myself to do it.

[14:09] Jenna: I love that because that's what we need. We need that hit of dopamine, that hit of OOH, life is amazing. And then we can move forward.

[14:18] Jessica: Yeah. And actually, I am perfectly capable of doing the bigger thing. It's not a knowledge thing or that I don't know what I'm doing. It's just I don't have that level of energy first thing in the mornings to open my laptop and be like, yes, let me go after one coffee to go and make this very complicated thing happen. I'm okay with that. I used to think, hey, but it is the most important thing, so you shouldn't be wasting your time. But I just try and let go of this whole you shouldn't, because realistically, nobody gets to tell you who should and shouldn't do what in which way. I love that, and it's your business, your business, your work, like your choice.

[14:58] Jenna: I love talking with you about it because it is really freeing to just say it's okay that I think differently and that you don't have to be upset about the chaos you caused. I mean, obviously you didn't want to cause it, but you don't have to look at it in a way of berating yourself, but in a way that you say, what caused the chaos? How can I make it so that doesn't happen next time?

[15:22] Jessica: And I think the important thing for me to realize with that was that whether it's at work or whether it's in a business or in any which way, I didn't set out to cause chaos. Let's say I didn't do something or I forgot a deadline because I didn't write it down. I wasn't intentional about that. So the thing that the person you're working for or your client wants to hear isn't you saying, yeah, I'm so sorry, I messed that up, I'm such an idiot, blah, blah, blah. And that wasn't nasty. Things that we tend to sometimes say to ourselves, what they want to know is, what are you doing about this problem? And I found I've had way more success whenever I've communicated before I start work with a client that there are certain processes that I have in place, and they are in place for a reason. And you might think that they're redundant or annoying, but for me, these are the things that make sure that I do good work most of the time. And then there could be situations that happen where I feel like I'm drowning. And I've just learned instead of going quiet, which is what I used to do when I was first starting, I was like, oh, I can't let people down or something. I used to just say, hey, I said I was going to send this. Today my day. Today did not go in any which way as I had planned. This thing isn't going to get sent to you until tomorrow. And if there isn't an urgent deadline associated with it, I have no reason to feel bad about that. Particularly if it's things that are like, out of my control and that were actually more important than that piece of work. But the thing the person expects is that trust and to be communicated with. And sometimes when you get in the spiral of feeling bad about something, you don't want to communicate with somebody else to give them a heads up about anything, you're thinking, okay, can I still squeeze it in? Can I just send it like super late and it's still the same day? I mean, you do all this weird stuff in your head, but it's not worth it. It's not worth the stress, and it's not worth the potential trust that's broken when you don't speak up and when you don't say anything, basically. And then if something goes wrong, I just tell people, hey, yep, I messed that up. I have figured out the source of the mess up. This is what I'm doing so that mess up doesn't happen again, and I'm going to fix this thing that I messed up. And if you've done that, there's nothing more that you can do. And if then somebody else wants to still continue to be upset or whatever, then that's their choice that they're making. But that doesn't have to impact me and how I carry on with my work at that point.

[17:57] Jenna: That's beautiful because, yeah, to take the ownership from you to them, that if as long as you're owning your actions and you're owning your life, then from then they own their own reaction to that.

[18:11] Jessica: Yeah, and some people just choose to be upset, and everyone has their own issues. And I'm sure that there's been things that I'm pretty sure there's things now that I continue to choose to be upset about when I don't have a reason to. But I'm just holding on to it and seems to serve some sort of purpose for me. But probably it'd be better if I just let that go. But it's not that easy. It takes a little bit of effort.

[18:34] Jenna: And you have to realize you're doing it first.

[18:37] Jessica: Yeah, that's true. I guess my main thing is just keep looking at what it is that you are doing, what it is that you're doing well and easy, and why is that working well and easy in this area? And then when you find other parts where you're like, okay, here I am struggling, look for why? Where is the pattern? And it's not. I remember I was doing my NLP Practitioner Training, and they always said that why is a bad question to ask because it gets you in this justifying spiral. And they rather know ask what motivated you to do that, or how come that this happened? And that helps even with myself when I say, oh, why did I not do that? My internal dialogue goes into, well, it's because but actually, how come this happened? Or what went wrong here? That I'm at this outcome that I'm at now, then I can sort of see, okay, well, I didn't do this here and this I didn't write down there, and then this didn't get sent here, which caused that person not to do the thing that they were supposed to do on time. And therefore we're in the situation that we're in right now, right? Where did it start going wrong? So that I can try that that doesn't happen another time, basically. But it's really need to be able to look at that from a certain neutral perspective, otherwise it's too emotional.

[20:01] Jenna: Oh, I love that. And I felt that when you changed the question to what caused this to happen, or how come this occurred? That I was able to even, just in my mind, step back from thinking of a situation to thinking of it as a sequence of events, not something that was necessarily I was emotionally attached to.

[20:22] Jessica: Yeah, it's like the thing, as soon as try it out at home, try it out with anyone around, I can ask my boyfriend, Why did you do that? And then he'll say, oh, because and then he'll put out some sort of excuse that has nothing to do with his thought process of why he did what he did. Whereas if I ask him, so what made you think doing this was a specifically good idea? Then he'll go, Well, I thought this and then I thought that, and then I thought you might like that. So therefore I book this restaurant on the time when you're not actually available without checking with you. I just wanted to do something nice. And you get a completely different response from other people, but that also works with yourself. You can get a completely different response from yourself if you ask yourself a different question and you can't change it anymore, like it's already happened. So might as well figure out why did this happen? What were the sequence of things that led to this outcome? And then it's more neutral and you're like, well, mess up here, delay here, not so good. Communication here means chaos here. We can fix that.

[21:28] Jenna: That's amazing. I love that. Okay, I'm going to totally write. There are signs I need to make and that is going to be one of my signs I need to make is we're going to put like a why and cut it out and then say what caused this?

[21:44] Jessica: Yeah, it's incredible. I was very surprised. I actually went on the NLP Practitioner Training through the lady that I was working for and we went as a team, basically. And it was very interesting because I thought, oh, well, what new things am I realistically going to learn here? But I learned so much about language and what happens in the way that we use language with ourselves, but also with other people, and particularly because hypnosis is a part of it. We looked at so many patterns in language and the response that you get from others that that's like a super interesting thing. It's a hyper focus alert. Yeah. So don't go down the rabbit hole when you've got the client project.

[22:30] Jenna: We're like rabbit hole alert.

[22:35] Jessica: I just know that it is a bit of a rabbit hole, but I have found it to be very useful provided you have a way that you're going to implement that. So you don't just consume that, but you then go, okay, right, so I've learned that, but where can I use this? That's definitely something that's been a bit eye opening as far as language is concerned and how we use language. And then you can use that completely on yourself because the first person that you're going to improve is yourself. And then you help other people. But you got to get into a good headspace. Yeah. I think particularly when it comes to that perceived rejection or someone telling you off or a mistake having been made, being able to talk to yourself differently. It is really the key to not have that get out of control. The amount of jobs that I've quit when I was first starting to work because someone said something, it's actually quite funny, but I didn't understand what was happening at the time. But I must have had a new job like every two weeks for like a year.

[23:41] Jenna: Oh, you're in the right place.

[23:44] Jessica: Yeah. It wasn't because I wanted to try something new because I was bored, but I was just like in situations and then someone says, like, oh, yeah, why did you put six pieces of chicken in here? It's supposed to be five. I'm like, well, one of them was a bit small, so I put an extra one because I'd feel mugged if I bought that. And then I'm like, who are you even to be shouting at me? Can you talk to me like a normal person? And then I'd be like, you know what? I quit.

[24:12] Jenna: I'm just done with this now. That's part of our thing. We have the whole rejection dysphoria, and then we have our standards. I just feel like people with ADHD, sometimes we have this stubborn streak, and it's just the way and like you said, sometimes we have to step back and say, wait, hold on. What actually was meant.

[24:37] Jessica: Yeah, I have actually I have not the tip for that one, but whenever I feel like someone's wronged you, something that I started doing is to make a decision on what I would do in that moment. I'm like, in this moment, I'm going to decide to fire this client. And then I would write out the whole email that basically fires the client and tells them I never want to work with them again. And then I would not send that off. So I would go through the process. I would make the decision. I would send the email. And then the next day after I've slept and have kind of stepped out of that thought spiral a little bit, I would then talk to the client about whatever happened or whatever the issue is. And then how many times have people said, I'm really sorry. My daughter was so sick yesterday. I should have never sent you an email like that? I just didn't even realize how it came across. Like, I'm so sorry. And then you're like, oh, okay. But you got to act on it. Pretend in that moment, right? You got to send that email to fire the client. Like, you got to write it at least. You got to pretend that you're going to send this. You got to make the decision. You got to be upset about it. You felt like you did something, but you gave yourself a little bit more time just to get some more facts. And I would say probably 80% of the time, whatever happened had nothing to do with me personally or my work or anything. It was actually something within that person that bothered them in that moment and caused them to say things that they didn't even mean to put out like that. Or I interpreted something that they never meant that helped me, I think, from firing quite a few clients. I don't want to do that anymore.

[26:27] Jenna: Those are two amazing thoughts because one, you're letting that impulse out. We have low impulse control anyway. And so you're like, okay, I am just going to even open a Word document and write out the email. And then I can copy and paste it if I still want to send it tomorrow, but I'm just going to force myself to not actually send it. But I'm letting that impulse out and then to go and take the step back and realize that it wasn't about you. Those are both great. That's amazing.

[27:01] Jessica: Yeah, it's kind of a sanity saver. By the way, I had warning. They've started to funny thing, I live in Albania. I moved to Albania. Yeah. I'm originally from Germany, moved to the UK in 2008, and then I moved to Albania like, four years ago. And Albanian people are very interesting. One thing they always like to do is beeping, but the other thing they like to do is to either drill things or dig up roads or whatever at the weirdest time. So, yeah, right now they've decided that it'd be a good idea to dig on the road downstairs a little bit for some reason. That's fine.

[27:35] Jenna: Okay. Random question about Albania. Are they one of the countries that head nodding and head shaking is backwards?

[27:43] Jessica: In German, we actually when the answer is between yes and no, we say yin, so yes and no. It's hard to explain without the visual. There's like a certain speed to it, so if I shake my head fast, it means no and it's very clear. But if it's like a slow sort of sideways headshake, that's like a yes, obviously. So I remember I kept going to the supermarket and I would try not to get a plastic bag, so I would tell them Ya, which means no. But then I would move my head in a way that indicated that I did want a bag. And then, obviously, body language outrules spoken language, so I'd end up leaving the supermarket with a bag, and I didn't want a bag. So I struggled for like, six months. And then eventually I realized if I say yoyo and wave my hand round a little bit, they understand that I really didn't want the bag. But it takes, like, six months.

[28:43] Jenna: That's amazing. I love that.

[28:46] Jessica: Yeah. And then another friend of mine came and he actually did say, what is the trick to not leave the supermarket with a bag? I'm like wait, I'll show you. So I felt better that it wasn't just me that was sort of in situations all the time, but yeah, it's not black and white. Like yes and no means up and down, left and right. It's a little bit nuanced, I guess.

[29:11] Jenna: Well, good to know when I get to go to Albania now I know waving of the hands better.

[29:18] Jessica: Yeah, I was just love it.

[29:21] Jenna: So what advice would you give to any ADHD out there who is like, okay, I want to make the jump to entrepreneurship. I don't know for sure how to start or what advice would you give them?

[29:35] Jessica: I think it depends on the reason why you're trying to do anything. So I really wasn't happy with what I was doing from the first day that I had to go to work. I mean, I already didn't like going to school every day, which is why I missed quite a few days randomly because I just didn't feel like it. But I had the same with work and I was feeling quite low because I just felt like, what, I'm going to have to do this now every day for the rest of my life? That's a long time. I can't quite even picture it, but it seems a very long time. And I was always trying to do more at work. I was trying to say, hey, I'm noticing here there's a bit of inefficiency and people were not usually positively responding. They'd be like, what do you know about this? You just started here like three days ago. And I'm like, well, you know, fresh people, fresh perspective. I see things that you having been here a long time, might not see and was like, yeah, don't do that, we don't really care. So I felt like I would have not been happy constantly going to work for other people just because, yeah, maybe I'm a bit stubborn like that, but I like to come up with creative ideas, I like to do my own thing. I like the problem solving, I like the having to make something happen. I like the responsibility that comes with that. I like it. I think it's kind of painted as this rosy thing. Like you go, you start your own business and everything's going to be so much more amazing. I wouldn't say that that's the case. I would say for some people that is a really good idea. But be prepared that there's still a lot of things that you need to do that you might not like, particularly at the beginning when you don't have the funds to get help and then you need to deal with yourself. So whenever you're saying, oh yeah, I don't really feel like working on this really important client project today, although the deadlines today and you sort of let it go and you haven't found a way to get yourself motivated, you don't have pressure from anybody else, it's just you and the thing that you're doing. And there's marketing to be done, there's admin to be done, there's finances to be kept an eye on, invoices to be sent. So there's a lot of things that in the beginning you're doing yourself, so you need to be prepared to do those things and find systems that work to get those things done. And then over time, you can set things up so that other people can help you with those things that are really not your thing. For me to go once a month to download the invoices, to put them in the tax software, that would never happen. I just wouldn't do it. And it takes a little bit of time to get to a place where I can just show someone else how to do it. And then they spend once a month, 30 minutes to go get the invoices, but at least it's done and I don't have to worry about it anymore. So I would say if you're feeling really uncomfortable with the work environment and you like that sense of responsibility and the challenge of it, then it's an amazing thing to do. And I don't regret having done it because of how much I've learned and because of how much I had to develop. And I love it. But yeah, I did realize after some time that there are still things I'm going to have to do that I just really don't want to do, but it leads me to the result that I want to have. So I guess, yeah, let's do it. But I don't want to say that it's like the perfect thing. It works immediately. There's a lot of challenge with it as well, and you have to be ready for that. Perfect.

[32:55] Jenna: Thank you. And I love that it's very balanced. And for my guests, especially those of you with ADHD, I really like to give you a chance to just send out any message you'd like to send to any of the people listening that might be struggling with their symptoms or struggling with life that are trying to figure out where they fit in the world.

[33:15] Jessica: Yeah, that took me a while. Probably whenever I was thinking of stuff that I wanted to do that I sort of thought I might not be able to do because I struggle with this and I struggle with that. I always ask myself whether I know one single person that is similar to me and that has achieved the thing that I want to do. So do I know one person that also has ADHD and that is very successful in their job? Yes. Okay. Do I know one single person that runs a super successful business? Oh, yeah. I can think of a lot of people with ADHD that started successful businesses. So yes. Okay, so if they have been able to figure it out, then I can also learn to find a way to figure that out. Like, this has been with you all your life. You have figured it out up to this point. You didn't know potentially until thirty s. Forty s, sixty s or 70s, what is going on? You didn't know, but you still achieved things. You still made things happen. Maybe not how other people would like it, but who cares about that? But you still made it happen, so you can make other things happen as well. And I love to find some other positive examples of people that did it. And if one person can figure out how to do it, or ten have already figured it out, well, then guess what? You can also figure it out.

[34:35] Jenna: Thank you. So much. That's beautiful. And, Jessica, thank you so much for being here today. It's been a pleasure.

[34:42] Jessica: Thank you for having me. This is fun. With slight tangents. Not too many.

[34:47] Jenna: Hey. Well, do you have any other questions for me or anything else?

[34:51] Jessica: No, I don't. All right. All righty, then. Thank you so much. That was funny.

[34:57] Jenna: Thank you again. Thank you for coming.

[34:59] Jessica: All right, bye bye.

[35:04] Jenna: Thanks so much for listening. To learn more about anything we talked about today, head over to office Remember to, like, subscribe and share and have a great day. We'll see you next time!

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